I've always been a supporter of Duotrope, using it heavily, promoting it when I could, donating money (directly and sometimes asking a story fee be donated anonymously) and diligently reporting all my submissions.
It was a good relationship. I was happy to donate my money and my data to the writing community, hoping that some newbie would benefit, as I benefited when I started out.
Come January that relationship will change, as virtually all the features will go behind a pay wall. That's their decision. And I wish them well as a new business.
But although I'm a frequent user, I won't be using it in future. As a more established writer, I can find the data elsewhere, for free (Ralan.com for instance) or from my twitter feed, or writing groups. For me, the goodwill has gone, and I'm hearing this a lot from my writing friends.
This makes makes a me a little sad. So, I'll leave you with a Duotrope screenshot. The more observant of you, may recognise the story featured.
Money Flow From the Writer at Publisher's Weekly
Duotrope's Facebook page
I have to confess, I did sign up to Duotrope and receive semi-regular emails from them, but something always stayed my hand from getting involved. So glad I didn't now.
ReplyDeleteEven though I'm still happy to write these little 'Five Sentence Fiction' shorts, I have decided not to bother placing myself on the FSF listing in future, it's just not me, I've done the good little commentator bit, but I'm just not part of 'the crowd' - nor do I wish to be.
Does this make me some kind of anarcist? Or am I just... broken?
You're part of my crowd, Mark!
DeleteDuotrope was/is extremely useful if you wanted to submit your stories for publication. But if that's not your thing, then they'd be irrelevant.
Plenty of writers enjoy writing without stepping onto the treadmill of publication.
I envy them.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Delete*laughs*don't worry, I'll delete to hide your shame
ReplyDeleteoh, no. That makes it worse!
ReplyDeleteWhat have you done, Mark?
ReplyDeleteOh, nothing, just shamed myself in regards to simple grammar - but my excuse was 'a moment of being thick'. You know how it sometimes hits you across the back of the head like a length of 2x4 swung enthusiastically by an 8 year old.
DeleteHaven't seen you around for, ooh, what seems like a life time now, I hope you're keeping well and the Amazon saga has now settled?
*laughs* just a simple typo. But I managed to make it look, mysterious-- Sorry, Mark.
DeleteI'm muddling through. Bit tough looking for a new place to love and work at the same time, so I've been non-Internet busy. As for the Amazon issue, well, Amazon refuses to let anyone publish The Blade That Whispers Hate' now that it's been flagged as pirated. Including me, the guy that complained. So I published it at Amazon under the title 'The Thief Who Pulled On Trouble's Braids'. Lesson learned- publish at Amazon before you publish at Smashwords, to short circuit all that nonsense.
DeleteAnyway, how's tricks?
'Love' should read 'live' by the way. Best not to ask Deborah to delete, though :)
Delete//typo???? Delete mode activated////
DeleteLoving the snow! I feel pretty much the same as you - it's a shame but I understand why they're doing it. And, yes, Ralan, the SFWA list etc. will be where I turn from now on I suspect.
ReplyDeleteI wish they'd been more transparent about the amount of donations they'd received in the past.
DeleteBut, yes. It's their decision to make. There's all kinds of alternatives floating in the ether. We shall see.
I HAVE SNOW! Mr Kewin - you are so cool!
ReplyDeleteSnow!
DeleteI feel the same about Duotrope. I supported it the best I could at this stage, but with their decision (and the way they handled the announcement), I'll do without. I also think the price point is ridiculous. I'm just glad there's Ralan, as you point out, and that the speculative world is pretty transparent with what's out there. Fingers crossed!
ReplyDeleteDuotrope's handling of the announcement has certainly caused comment!
DeleteI actually would be perfectly willing to pay the annual fee. I certainly put enough server stress with my constant OCD refreshing of their pages. However, the problem is that it's clear not everyone is able or comfortable to do so (especially at the price point they've chosen), which means that regardless whether I'm willing to pay the price they're asking or not, the accuracy of their data is going to change. That diminishes the most useful part of the service provide, which means I'd be paying more for less. And that makes me reticent to give them any money, despite the fact that I've been giving them as much as I can when they weren't asking for any.
ReplyDeleteAnd btw, in addition to Ralan.com, there's also critters.org/blackholes for market stats, and spacejock.com/Sonar3.html for submission tracking. I've been trying to spread the word about those on twitter, especially black holes. If enough people start using it, their stats will be just as accurate as Duotrope's.
DeleteYes, J.W. the data accuracy is an interesting issue. Duotrope believe that the data will be better after the change.
DeleteHowever different users want different things from data. I'm particularly interested in outlier data. Data reporting a statistically improbable events, like an acceptance at Fantasy and Science Fiction! And data from users with very high acceptance rates, data from users who are held for consideration for a long time.
If these users don't add their data to duotrope, then the value would decrease for me.
Other users might not be so concerned with outlier data.
And thanks for the reminder about critter's blackholes. Definitely worth checking out.
That's an important point about the accuracy of Duotrope's data and how that will change.
ReplyDeleteI've enjoyed the website and have donated myself in the past, but recent changes in publications started me forming my own database, in which I now keep track of pretty much everything Duotrope does.
Starting January, I might try to go out on my own like you. As mentioned above, there are plenty of other resources, and it might be a good thing for me to broaden my networks.
Nice snow!
You should go for it. And you can always pop into duotrope for $5 a month if you need to.
DeleteI have used Duotrope, but not very often. Certainly not often enough to justify the $50 fee they're asking.
ReplyDeleteHi Patsy. You have your own resources, I love the competitions you post on your blog.
DeleteThis is the first I've heard of it. Again - understandable if they feel they just can't go on - but from the sounds of it, they could've handled it better. I've supported in the past, but will not be paying to continue - most of the publications I've found and placed with successfully through them were non paying markets, which was amazing for exposure - but non-paying is non-paying.
ReplyDeleteThere's an incredible amount of non-paying venues. I wonder if the changes to duotrope will alter the landscape. Interesting times.
DeleteWhat I've always found interesting is that Ralan has the uglier site, but the better professional reputation - it's even name dropped in the latest HWA "On Writing Horror" book.
DeleteI've noticed that, too. Perhaps because Ralan's been around longer. One great feature of Ralan's is that he'll thank you publicly for market information (if you wish it).
DeleteDuotrope never responded to the market info I provided.
I didn't know what Duotrope was for, though I've heard of it before. It's always a little sad to see a good service institute a paywall.
ReplyDelete(And I love the fact the snow is on your blog again!)
Snow! It's just for Christmas. Yep, it feels a little sad, end of an era.
DeleteThanks to Duotrope, I have a spreadsheet of close to 200 markets I submit to regularly. I'll just have to rely on my writer friends from now on to clue me in when a new one opens... (That's how I rolled before I found out about Duotrope in 2010.)
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of talk about new alternative databases, Milo. I'm going to wait and see what crops up.
ReplyDeleteI just wrote my first blog post in a month - it goes up tomorrow - and I mentioned this too. I don't think I'm going to use it either going forward. Too bad. It was nice.
ReplyDelete